Likeminds 2009: the conference with a Marmite effect?

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Claire Thompson, Waves PR

Likeminds 2009: Measuring Social Media, and making it sustainable

I am probably going to be popular with no-one here. So before starting this blogpost, let me just say for the record that I have great respect for the people who were on the stage at the Likeminds ’09 conference in Exeter on Friday. And that I enjoyed being able to catch up with people in an out of London venue, and also to share with people from another country and get a different perspective. As well as catch up with friends.

This was the conference billing:

Measuring Social Media, and making it sustainable

The conference will focus on sustainable social media and social media ROI, answering such questions as:
• How to measure social media ROI
• How to carry out online campaigns to compliment offline marketing mix
• How to target online audiences, and best engage current customers and new customers
• How to turn customers into brand advocates through social media

In my humble opinion, the conference failed to achieve this ambition – which, in all fairness, was a pretty lofty aim for a couple of hours on a Friday afternoon.

As a PR consultant, I cannot be alone in having an unending thirst for the tools that will help me measure – and therefore develop and improve – social engagement in a professional context. I want the companies and organisations that I work with to get it right. We are all at the base of a big wave. No-one has all of the answers, but keeping abreast of change and good practise are at the foundation of sensible advice to clients.

I had hoped to find a few more positive and inspiring examples to learn from at LikeMinds.

I rather suspect that, at base level, part of the problem was that not everyone was talking about the same thing – we all have a base idea of what ‘social media’ is, but the majority of ‘social media users’ would not really know or care that they are social media users. They are users of social media tools or social media networks to achieve a particular end (and often unconsciously).

However, I still feel sold down the river that the majority conclusion of the speakers seemed to be that there is no way to measure ROI.

I had hoped to learn more from the conference. To hear case studies of companies that have used social media in positive ways to achieve genuine business goals and share the tools that they used to assess impact (I do note, here, however, that the conference was far from overpriced.)

It jars hearing people saying ‘how can you measure the impact of a conversation’? Well, if you’re a salesperson, the listening pays off in sales, because you hear what people want and provide it. If your role is customer support, hearing people’s problems can allow you to issue general, timesaving advice or feed into product development.

Before you undertake any business activity, you generally have an objective in mind. It may be to sell more (Dell); it may be to deepen brand values (Marmite); it may be to undo a damaged reputation (the jury’s out, but I’d be watching Habitat’s engagement to see if it can turn things around); it may be to learn from what people think of your products (Microsoft); it may be to offer support to customers (Cisco) or resellers (SAP).

Of course you can measure the ROI. In business, you have to measure its worth, because otherwise no-one will pay for the time to do it!

Most of the commercial examples flying around are companies built on social media platforms, or already tech savvy companies. Or big brands.

There were nuggets of greatness in the talks at Likeminds. And for a small business taking ‘babysteps’ in (speaker’s words, not mine), it will probably have proved useful. But it was really only Olivier Blanchard (the Brandbuilder) who was anywhere near approaching the topic in hand. Don’t get me wrong. All talks were enjoyable and interesting. But not, generally, enlightening in the ROI stakes.

But the board isn’t, as yet, totally bought in to social media. Let’s face it, some are still at the stage of debating allowing Internet access.

Likeminds may find it has done more to damage genuine business engagement than help it along. Whilst I enjoyed hearing about the spreading the love (and ads!), I can hear apoplectic board members harming themselves laughing as they fall off their chairs, short of breath with hilarity, when we stand up and say “do this because people will love you, man”.

Sadly, it all has rather unfortunate echoes of the much repeated ‘social media expert’ clip shown at the start of the conference.

Footnote: if you have a measurement tool, please, feel free – go ahead and ‘spam’ me with the details (ahem – I don’t need to measure anything that might come out of pill popping , so if you spam that, you’ll be moderated out – sorry!) and I’ll pop the details publicly at the bottom of this post. And if you have a positive business example, feel free to tell the world/link to your example.

Related blogs (being updated for next few days):

Ann Holman: Please sir (Scott) can I have some more

Pictures: Flickr

Nick Tadd/Four walls: video blog

Marketing Donut: Live tweets

I am Banksy: Social Media ROI and Likeminds

Lynda Bowler: Bowlers Blog

Andrew (Drew) Ellis: The New New Thing

Business Cornwall: live Blog

Rokkster: Like Minds? Love Minds

James B (awesome speaker with attention grabbing kilt!) Like Minds Controversy and Misunderstanding

Scott Gould: You proved ROI (proving that you can measure ROI)

Blog from the Brandbuilder – not on the conference, but related in both subject and because he spoke there: http://jburg.typepad.com/future/2009/09/the-writing-on-the-wall.html

The list to end all lists: Likeminds’ own blog

Tags: PR, public relations, ROI

PR practise, communications | claireatwaves | October 19, 2009 1:52 pm

16 Comments

By Gemma Went, October 19, 2009 @ 4:10 pm

Well I’m a lover not a hater, but then I would say that as I ‘get’ social media (and yes it’s one of my services). I agree that it’s a much harder pill to swallow for the Board. The issue of justification and ROI is such a complex one that the event may not have answered those questions fully, agreed. However, I think it made a good start.

You asked for an example … well here you go. My business, a marketing, pr and social media consultancy, is a case study in itself. Launched in Jan 09, I had no previous brand and no presence on social media apart from a slightly embarrassing Facebook profile. I have only used social media and seo to promote the business and have measured all interest, traffic, mentions, new clients and, of course, revenue. Business to business examples, such as mine, are easier to measure of course. Every potential new client is simply asked where they heard of us and that data is entered on a spreadsheet. No ‘science bit’ there. I of course measure traffic to my website and blog from my social media profiles, mentions across the digital space, all of which is added to the data and helps me to work out the money bit and whether the activity is working or not. Google analytics, of course, helps with that. As does the likes of Hootsuite and Tweetdeck. Im currently testing Buzz Stream (still in Beta, but is free at the moment so worth a shot if you have no budget for measurement tools – for small business Radian 6 can be a bit pricey). I’m still trying out a raft of other measurement tools including Trackur etc and will continue to do so.

So, the results then. It took me a good 3 months before I gained momentum through social media. But since then I have a client who came to me directly from my blog. I have another that found me on Linked In. I have four from Twitter. I am speaking with 5 other potential clients, 4 of which came directly from Twitter and are mulling over their proposals (three of which I wrote on the train down to Exeter on Friday – now that’s multi tasking). I should point out that I have never ‘sold’ myself through social media in the traditional sense. Instead I have established credibility in my field so when people want the services I offer, they think of me. I’ve also had a lot of people I connect with through Twitter, Linked In and my blog recommend me. So that ‘word of mouth’ thing works. To sum it up, a high proportion of my fee income has come directly from social media this year. And yes, Im continuing to use it as my primary marketing tool.

The non monetary stuff helps too. I was invited to write a chapter in a book entitled ‘How to run a successful design business’ (I work primarily in the design industry) on using social media and blogging as a marketing and pr tool after the author read a blog post. I gave a talk at Saatchi & Saatchi last month on using Social Media after the MD of Saatchi Design read another blog post and followed me on Twitter (which I now have a potential client from) and I continue to be approached with opportunities that would never have come my way were it not for social media. All of these things, of course, also help to bring in new business.

Now that’s just the model that’s worked for Red Cube over the past 10 months. Each business is different and needs its own approach. But as you can see, it does work. It can be measured if you’re clear what you’re trying to achieve (in my case establish a brand, build credibility and facilitate new business opportunities), understand the process and work out ‘how’ to measure it. Just remember, there is no ‘one size fits all’ measurement tool (which is part of the problem here I think). Businesses need to think about how they’re already measuring marketing and pr activities (which they’re doing of course, right?) and think about how they can apply that to social media, while also trying out some of the specific social media tools on offer.

Sorry that become a bit of a blog post of its own. Well, you did ask.
By admin, October 19, 2009 @ 4:37 pm

No probs on the blog post – pleased you’ve commented.

I have been able to demonstrate ROI using sales as a metric, and also pentration of a particular story, but the other tools I have used are pretty piecemeal and I’m sure there are others out there.

Do you have any examples of clients in real world businesses (ie not in our fields of PR/marketing) where you can demonstrate ROI using specific tools?
By Gemma Went, October 19, 2009 @ 4:48 pm

I’m currently running two social media programs for clients, however neither are far along enough yet for me to demonstrate the results. One is the launch of a design event to the design world (where the brief is to create buzz and drive sign ups – which is going very well so far) and the other is to launch a hand washing product and new advertising vehicle to the world (so a bit different then). I’m using Google analytics and buzz stream on both at the moment and may try TruPulse soon (am in talks with them right now).

As mentioned, I’m always trying out new tools and happy to share those that I feel ‘work’ with the likeminds crew as and when.
By Vanessa Warwick (@4_walls), October 19, 2009 @ 4:51 pm

I think Likeminds was about a shift in thinking to be honest.

You cannot apply traditional metrics to social media, but that is not a reason not to do it or to criticise those people who choose not to look at it with old-fashioned thinking.

How do you quantify a sale that came from the customer seeing something you contributed on-line four years ago?

The beauty of self-publication (NOT self-promotion) on the web, is that whatever you write is there in perpetuity and visible to millions of people, not just one (which is very different from a face to face conversation with just one person).

On our blog there is a link to a blog about Sally Asling of Surrey Lets generating £7K of business out of Twitter in four months.

The thing is, Sally just engaged and conversed, and the business was a by-product of that.

I think the question was answered, though obviously not in the way you wanted it answered.

I personally feel uncomfortable about talking about social media and marketing in the same breath, as would indicate that I don’t really “get” social media if I did.

Sharing information and creating win/win situations is good for business and good for humanity in general. If you want to be part of a humanity network, then join in and share what matters and is valuable. The results will surprise you!

With this blog, you have used social media to earn people’s attention. How might you convert that attention to a sale? Have a think about that for a moment. What happens if you had written a case study of how you had saved a client time and money. Might the attention you have earned attract more people to your company than if you hadn’t shared that information in an open and random format like this?

However, you can also resist what is happening and do the equivalent of trying to measure water with a ruler.

Change is inevitable, growth is optional.
By Scott Gould, October 19, 2009 @ 5:01 pm

Hi Claire,

You are right.

You are right that we didn’t cover all we set out to cover, and deviated from our stated agenda. And as you say, it is a lofty aim for any conference, because you learn social media through doing it – not being told how to do it.

You are right that many of the people looking for the “ROI” answer are in companies where the board is still “debating allowing Internet access.” – and as such, these people need training, not a conference. They need someone to sit down and show them.

And you are right, it was at a rate that anybody could afford – £25 early bird – and with industry leaders. No one can argue it.

And you are right that it is like marmite – and I gladly welcome those who hate it in comparison to those love it.

But you are also wrong.

You are wrong that social media has a compelling need to prove its ROI. What’s the ROI on your press releases, pray tell? And besides, I can prove my social media ROI – you were sat there looking at my ROI. And I’ve done the same for plenty of organisations.

You are wrong that “Likeminds may find it has done more to damage genuine business engagement than help it along.” Sorry, but have you looked at the hash tag? Have you seen how people are engaging – not just over money, but over fellowship? And again, what about the 200 in the room and the 600 online that were engaged?

You are wrong that we have echoed the social media guru video. Yes we could talk about free tools and how to use them – but please – go and find a local ‘guru’ who will charge you hundreds (literally) to do so instead. We’re not about teaching people how to use tools – we are “collaboration over innovation” and new ways of thinking.

You are wrong that the only examples are commercial brands – and I will share at a later date how I’ve done it locally.

You are right, that businesses are asking about the ROI and that “love” and other such words don’t cut it. But the time has come for businesses to get some feeling back. Sorry, but as long as they are passionless and visionless, then they don’t get it – because social media is *social*, it requires Personal Relationship, not Public Relations.

Without wanting to sound too arrogant, my framework on this is suggested reading (http://scottgould.me/pr-2010/)

Ok, so I failed at not sounding arrogant.

Scott
By admin, October 19, 2009 @ 5:47 pm

Hi Scott

I think that’s my point. Businesses don’t ‘give love’ and won’t unless they know ‘what’s in it for me’? You get a return on what you do. They have wages to pay and need a return on what they do.

(PR is about public relations, by the way, not press releases, which are just one of a myriad of tools, not an end itself. Relationships with the ‘publics’ with which we engage. I would guess that a fair percentage of the LikeMinds audience were in that category, although I’m seriously considering calling myself something else! I don’t need to go to a social media guru to find the tools – if I ask around, people are using them: social media in action.)

I am already bought in, enjoyed the conference and took away a lot from it, and am enjoying the post conference banter, but I won’t be sycophantic about it. The Conference was supposed to be about how to measure social media ROI
• How to carry out online campaigns to compliment offline marketing mix
• How to target online audiences, and best engage current customers and new customers
• How to turn customers into brand advocates through social media

LikeMinds did really well at engaging a social media savvy audience. But it’s perhaps a bit ripe for organisers and speakers to now be saying it’s wrong to talk about ROI in social media when that was the premise of the conference.
By Gemma Went, October 19, 2009 @ 5:52 pm

Claire .. we’re consultants. PR, marketing and social media are all our tools of engagement and we use whatever works best for the client and helps us to meet their objectives. IMHO of course
By Polprav, October 23, 2009 @ 6:47 am

Hello from Russia!
Can I quote a post in your blog with the link to you?
By admin, October 23, 2009 @ 10:01 am

Please go ahead, Polprav.

I have a claimr on the site and whole heartedly mean it: open for sharing, and debate!
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